Coordination of Group Buy from Four Seasons Comfort

[Porter Nines]

Okay - I talked to Craig Newhouse, the guy from Four Seasons Comfort and he gave me some great information!

He said that he's willing to give us some great pricing on his American Standard products - the good news is that he's actually going to PROVIDE us with the group pricing up front - none of this "I'll tell you how much it is once I know how many people are in" business. So we all know what we are getting into upfront.

He also did about 100 installations in the Milton Mattamy community so he said he'd be more than happy to give us some references, which is also good news.

The other thing he mentioned was that AC units are sold based on the seer rating. The seer rating goes from 13 - 20 and the cost differential between each seer is substantial - the higher the seer the more energy efficient, however Craig said that he wouldn't' recommend going with a higher seer. It will only save about $15 a month and he doesn't think it's worth the extra cash.

Anyway - he's sending me pricing as we speak which I will post as soon as I get it. He sounds like a straight up guy who knows his stuff. If you're interested give him a call and let him know that Nicola sent you so he knows you're part of the Millpond deal.

Nicola

[Alex&Vanessa]

I'm not too impressed with the prices they posted, I'll be buying from Pinewood, they are local and their prices are excellent and it's a Carrier product

[Porter Nines]

QUOTATION
MATTAMY MILLPOND GROUP BUY PRICING 2009

I am please to provide the following pricing for the Mattamy Millpond Residences for 2009.

To Supply and Install a :

American Standard Allegiance 1.5 ton $2175.00
13 Seer High Efficient Central AC

American Standard Allegiance 2.0 ton $2200.00
13 Seer High Efficient Central AC

American Standard Allegiance 2.5 ton $2350.00
13 Seer High Efficient Central AC

American Standard Allegiance 3.0 ton $2500.00
13 Seer High Efficient Central AC

American Standard Allegiance 3.5 ton $2900.00
13 Seer High Efficient Central AC

The above pricing is a complete installation including Wall Mount Brackets, Disconnect Box and up to 15 ft of copper line set. Over 15ft is $5.00 plf additional charge.

American Standard custom made protective winter covers are available for $65.00

Honeywell He 225 or General Air 1042 Humidifier $295.00 installed
We offer no interest no payments for 6 months for NO Charge.
If you require any further information please don’t hesitate to call.

Best Regards,

Craig Newhouse

Four Season Comfort Heating and Cooling
Office 519-941-6995
Moble 416-524-7228
fourseasoncomfort@bellnet.ca

[Porter Nines]

I'm not too impressed with the prices they posted, I'll be buying from Pinewood, they are local and their prices are excellent and it's a Carrier product


I too have called Pinewood and they are charging $3598 for the 3 ton TRANE (American Standard - same company) 13 seer unit.

Four Seasons is charging $2,500 for the same unit - which is a considerable savings.

The gentleman I spoke with at Pinewood was named Joe and also very helpful.

[Alex&Vanessa]

one word of caution, on American Standard's website the 13 SEER models use R-22 refrigerant, which is being phased out,

"The US EPA has enacted regulation which will phase out the use of HCFC-22 in the near future. Air conditioning manufacturers will no longer be allowed to sell R22 equipment as of January 1, 2010. In the aftermarket service business, the allocation rights for producers who manufacture R22 will be cut each year making the remaining R22 supply potentially smaller than the service demand for the product. This could make R22 scarce in the future, and drive prices to consumers higher."

the 14 SEER and higher models use r410 or Puron

most low end AC units (luxair, keeprite, goodman, american standard, ducane) use r-22

remember althought it's the same company it isn't always the same product.

those are great prices I admit, but everybody has different priorities, but I would strongly discourage buying an R-22 product

[fourseasoncomfortCOOLING]

one word of caution, on American Standard's website the 13 SEER models use R-22 refrigerant, which is being phased out,

"The US EPA has enacted regulation which will phase out the use of HCFC-22 in the near future. Air conditioning manufacturers will no longer be allowed to sell R22 equipment as of January 1, 2010. In the aftermarket service business, the allocation rights for producers who manufacture R22 will be cut each year making the remaining R22 supply potentially smaller than the service demand for the product. This could make R22 scarce in the future, and drive prices to consumers higher."

the 14 SEER and higher models use r410 or Puron

most low end AC units (luxair, keeprite, goodman, american standard, ducane) use r-22

remember althought it's the same company it isn't always the same product.

those are great prices I admit, but everybody has different priorities, but I would strongly discourage buying an R-22 product

I would like to correct the above quote/comment. There is a lot of misleading information regarding AC manufacturers and refigerant facts. I will explain.

All manufactureres, not only American Standard use R22 as it has been used over the past 25 years. 90% of all Air Conditioners in use have R22 refigerant.

It is true that in 2010 that R22 will be in fact phased out. It will be phased out because in the event of a freon leak it is not good for the environment. After 2010 no manufacturer will be able to produce a R22 central A/C.

In terms of the aftermarket service business, the supply of R22 refigerant will be easily available and is anticipated not to be as expensive as the new R410A freon. R410 freon is also available from 13 seer to 20 seer level of central air conditioners of most manufactures.

The individual who posted stated that it is only available in 14 seer or higher which is untrue. This individual also stated that American Standard was a low end AC unit along with Luxair, Keeprite, Goodman and Ducane. American Standard is a PREMIUM product which owns Trane and was rated number 1 on consumers report. That's why we are so busy!

Now for my personal opinion. In terms of the refigerant, I would recommend R22, although it is being phased out at the end of this year it has been performing successfully in the market place for 25 years. It has been tried and tested. The bad news is if you develop a leak it is in fact bad for the environment. R410A is a new refigerant which is a higher pressure freon that has only been in the market for under 6 years. 410A refigerant is good for the environment if you develop a leak however it is a high pressure freon which in turn causes the compressor to run approxamently 30% hotter. We do not know the effect of this for the future.

Now for the second misconception. The Seer rating determines the efficiency of the central AC unit. The higher the Seer the more efficent. For new homeowners in the GTA I would recommend 13 Seer. Here is why.

The difference in operating costs per additional Seer is about $10.00-$15.00 per month if the A/C is used every day. In southern Ontario we only use the AC for approxamently 3 months of the year. Therefore, it is not worth paying the additional $$ to upgrade to the 14,15,16 or greater Seer AC. It would only be worth it if you have a existing old, inefficient AC as you would then qualify for the Government Rebate.

Sorry to drag this on but I have to clarify when bad information is sent.
Most importantly, if the installation of the AC is not done right there will be problems down the road. Please do you research on the contractor you choose.

One more important thing, you use your Central AC for 3 months of the year, don't spend too much. Remember if you lived in Florida it would make sence to buy a high seer central AC as you would have a better return on your investment. It is unfortunate that homebuilders dont usually offer upgrades on furnaces as that is were you should spend your money. Not many new homes built have furnaces equipped with 2 stage gas valves and DC motors.
Invest in upgraded furnaces your money will be well spent.

Please call or email if you have any further questions.
We would be pleased to provide lots of references.

Best Regards,

Craig Newhouse
Four Season Comfort Heating & Cooling
fourseasoncomfort@bellnet.ca
www.fourseasoncomfort.com

416-524-7228 mobile
519-941-6995 office

[Porter Nines]

I also forgot to mention that I found out that the units offered by Four Seasons are covered by a 10 year warranty on parts and five year on labour which was substantially better than what Pinewood offered which I have written down at work and will post tomorrow.

Hopefully this info helps some of you who are shopping around!

[Alex&Vanessa]

just to correct one thing I mentionned, American Standard does offer r410 13 SEER units, but the prices quoted above, I will bet youare for R22

in my opinion we use AC more than 3 months a year 4-6 months would be more accurate mid May to Mid September for sure

and my needs in terms of AC is

-reliability
-R410
-Noise
-Price
-SEER

13 SEER products tend to be the bottom end of a product line, maximising price over efficiency and noise

as for what make is better or worse, it's like sports teams they vary from person to person so we can leave it at that

[fourseasoncomfortCOOLING]

just to correct one thing I mentionned, American Standard does offer r410 13 SEER units, but the prices quoted above, I will bet youare for R22

in my opinion we use AC more than 3 months a year 4-6 months would be more accurate mid May to Mid September for sure

and my needs in terms of AC is

-reliability
-R410
-Noise
-Price
-SEER

13 SEER products tend to be the bottom end of a product line, maximising price over efficiency and noise

as for what make is better or worse, it's like sports teams they vary from person to person so we can leave it at that

You are entitled to your opinion, the fact is that 13 Seer equipment vs 14-20 Seer equipment have no difference in quality or in sound level. The only difference is the efficiency. The higher the seer rating, the larger the outdoor unit as the larger condensor can more efficiently dissipate the heat.

Best Regards,

Craig Newhouse

[Alex&Vanessa]

so then American Standard's website is a fraud stating their 15 series Ac units are quieter than their 13 series, at 71 db

[smartsexystylish]

Thank you Nicola for coordinating the group buy :)

We will keep them in mind when we are shopping around for A/C (And humidifier!)

[northridgeC]

Looking to get AC installed, just wondering if everyone was happy with there American STD and fourseasons?

Thanks